When we think of ISIS, one of the last things that comes to mind is a red-headed white dude.
But that was exactly the image that beamed through our television screens when a group of young Aussies had been caught fleeing the country to join ISIS.
One of those men was Musa Cerantonio, Muslim convert and Islamic State supporter.
To many Australians this was unthinkable – why the hell would an Anglo-Australian ever want to join ISIS?
What’s the appeal?
And how does the process of radicalisation happen?
For his book, Depends What You Mean By Extremist, John Safran spent a fair bit of time with Musa (before his arrest), so we asked him why perfectly normal, well-adjusted Australian kids are turning to one of the most reviled organisations on this planet.